Properties Minutes 18th December 2007
Minutes of a meeting of the PROPERTIES COMMITTEE held in the Council Chamber, Drake Road, Tavistock on TUESDAY the 18th day of DECEMBER 2007 at 6.30 p.m.
Present: Cllr Mrs M Govier Chair
Cllr D Best
Cllr C Jenkins
Cllr Mrs A Johnson Town Mayor
Cllr R Pike Dep Town Mayor
Cllr H Smith Chair F&GP
Cllr E Sanders
Cllr E Sherrell
Cllr B Trew
In Attendance: Town Clerk
Works Superintendent
One member of the Press
440. APOLOGIES
There were apologies for absence from Cllr Mrs Sellis.
441. MINUTES
The Minutes of the Meeting of the Committee held on 27th November 2007, previously circulated and adopted by Council on 4th December 2007, were confirmed as a true record and signed by the Chairman.
442. MATTERS ARISING
a. Pixon Lane. Members noted that we were working on a revised business case for the proposed Pixon Lane development project with more reasonable costings being asked for. With the latest estimated cost at £1,260,000 and with the accepted assumptions the project was no longer self-funding; indeed a contribution of some £27,000 a year over and above the best income estimate would have been required to fund it. The revised case would be presented as soon as it was available. Members agreed that the project had to be self funding, and suggested that year on year inflation could easily erode any shortfall as the rentals saved would mount up, and parking fees increase.
b. DCC Sign. Minute 383 referred. Members had approved a suggested DCC registrars’ office sign with the wish that it be ‘metallic’ to match the existing sign on the Drake Road office doorway. The response from the DCC Corporate Marketing & Communications Manager was that the sign was to the DCC corporate standard and that they could go no further than having the sign set on a metallic [silver] sign which would mean using the same vinyl colours placed on a aluminium base rather than a white base. Members felt that this would not be in keeping with the rest of the building, and a proposal to allow the sign was rejected by 6 votes to 2.
443. MINUTES OF THE TOWN HALL AND MARKETS SUB-COMMITTEE Cllr Trew presented the minutes of the meeting held on 10th December.
Concerning Minute 499.a.(v) Cllr Mrs Govier asked that her wish for the matter to be ‘a level playing field’ be added to the start of the minute.
a. Concerning Minute 499.a.(viii) Cllr Sherrell was against the closure of the Market road to vehicles. Cllr Best acknowledged that the advice given was ‘expert’ advice, and that the interpretation of the rules was that the road should be closed to vehicles. He suggested that a sign to the effect “Pedestrian Area. Authorised vehicles only at walking speed” might have the desired affect, so long as only authorised vehicles were allowed entry. The Chairman read out a letter from Cllr Mrs Sellis that was noted. Cllr Whitcomb spoke from the public benches. He had chaired a very difficult meeting, but they had been given a most comprehensive report on the problems that could occur by mixing vehicles and pedestrians. He had spoken to traders and had been pleased that so many liked the traffic free zone.
b. Cllr Trew reminded members of the increase in pedestrian usage of that market over the last decade, and how procedures in use then were no longer acceptable. Both statute and criminal law applied, and expert advice was necessary. Signage already exited at the gates to the Market but were generally ignored. He felt that it was the responsibility of the Council to look after it’s own business, and it was not the concern of Members to deal with the interests of other businesses. Cllr Jenkins felt it difficult to reject such compelling evidence. He was also concerned about the blocking of pavements forcing pedestrians into the road.
c. Cllr Pike wondered if the road could be opened to vehicles from (say) 12.00 to 1.00 pm. to allow deliveries. From the public benches Cllr P Sanders said there had been no injuries from accidents, and the mix of vehicles and pedestrians compared to Plymouth shopping centres. Stalls in the road created more problems. Police should be called to deal with offenders. Traders could be in breach of their leases if they ignored sensible instructions from staff. He recalled that the matter was to have been brought back to full council for debate at a later date. Cllr Mrs Ramsey was pleased with the comprehensive report from the Works Superintendent, and was concerned about the verbal abuse and threats to market staff. Members should be supporting their competent officers and traders abusing the market should be banned.
d. From the public benches Cllr Mrs Metcalf supported this view, and said that the stalls in the road were an attempt to maximise the footfall and trade for the town. Members were then asked to think of ideas to solve the problems. An electrical barrier operated from the Market Office was mooted, as was a member of staff standing ‘sentry’ at the gate from 9.00 am to 4.00 pm to allow in only authorised vehicles.
e. Cllr Trew though we should continue with the situation as it was and monitor it and consider other ideas and report back. Cllr Best wondered if we should take legal advice on the penalties of ignoring expert advice? He was advised by others that they acknowledged they would be at risk if they did ignore such advice unreasonably. Cllr Trew, who had acted as an expert health and safety witness in court cases, reminded Members that they could be liable under both civil and criminal law if they rejected advice without having an equal or better alternative to put in its place. The Works Superintendent was concerned about members making sweeping statements without having been present at the Sub-Committee meeting to hear his report. Also, the Market Reeve was not present to answer detailed comments about the Market. His cost benefit analysis has shown that we should continue with the system now in operation, which was a common and accepted practice. He wondered why some Members were willing to be dictated to by one trader when the majority accepted the new system, and many were in favour of it. He would go through his full report again before the matter was debated at full council so that all could have the best information before making any final decisions.
f. Cllr Best then proposed that a sign should be erected saying “Pedestrian area. Authorised vehicles only at walking speed”, and that the bollards be taken down. Cllr Pike made the point that any result would only be a recommendation to council so the status quo would remain. Cllr Smith agreed, saying that any such sign would legally be advisory only and could not be enforced. On a recorded vote the proposal was defeated by 5 votes to 2 with one abstention.
For Against Abstain
Cllr Best Cllr Mrs Govier Cllr Jenkins
Cllr Sherrell Cllr E Sanders
Cllr Trew
Cllr Pike
Cllr Mrs Johnson
Members agreed that officers should continue to work on alternative ways of controlling vehicles, and that a feasibility report on all such issues would be presented in the near future. Any Member with ideas was asked to forward them to the Clerk or the Works Superintendent.
Cllr Sherrell left the meeting
444. WORKS SUPERINTENDENT'S REPORT
Members noted the report at Annex A.
445. MARKET REEVE’S REPORT
Members noted the report at Annex B. They asked that future reports carry details of any incidents in the Market such as verbal abuse to staff or minor accidents.
446. TOWN HALL MANAGER’S REPORT
Members noted without comment the report at Annex C.
447. GOLF CLUB
Members received a letter from the Golf Club dated 29th November insisting that we sign the Deed of Variation or they might consider civil action. Advice from our lawyers was tabled, effectively giving three options one of which was to do nothing. Members thought a dialogue with the Club was needed, as it appeared agreement on the land use was possible. Cllr Trew believed that a land ‘swap’ should not occur, but that the Council should permit the Golf Club to use the area for practice as long as the rights of others to use the area were protected. The Chairman read out a letter from Cllr Mrs Sellis that was noted. Cllr Best disagreed that any ‘informal licence’ was in effect, and thought any discussions should start from a clear beginning. He had never seen the Golf Club use the area in question (though other Members said they had). Members thought that option 3.1, less the last sentence, might be appropriate. Cllr Trew then proposed that the Council should take the essence of the legal advice, and agree in principle to formalizing an annual renewable licence that would allow the Golf Club to use Area ‘A’ for golf practice providing it did not interfere with its use by any other persons. Member voted unanimously to RECOMMEND this to council.
448. COURT GATE
The Museum Trust may have some £50,000 available to undertake the planned works on Court Gate cottage. They had asked if the Town Council would project manage the works, and Members agreed that Mr Southall could act as the ‘clerk of works’ for the project.
449. ALLOTMENTS
The allotments management committee had reported that they were having problems with one tenant. They asked the Town Council to assist in solving the problem. Members deputed Cllr Pike, Cllr Mrs Metcalf and Cllr Mrs Govier as a Task and Finish Group to meet after Christmas, consider the matter in dispute and make recommendations to the management committee
450. BOWLS CLUB.
The Bowls Club were planning to make some improvements in and around their club house. To assist this they asked if Members would allow them to turn the old ‘disabled’ bowls area (currently unused) into a car park. Members thought that the area concerned was not suitable for cars due to the steep bank down. It was also felt that there was a need for new sports facilities, and that the area might be needed. They deferred any decision until detailed plans were tabled. They asked that the Works Superintendent be involved with the Club at an early stage.
451. URGENT BUSINESS BROUGHT FORWARD AT THE DISCRETION OF THE CHAIRMAN.
Members had earlier opened tenders for the Town Hall bar work. They were logged as:
JAGO £24,469
Ryearch £27,937
CLC £38,240
Rising 8. 15 p.m.
Signed………..…………………..Dated……………………………